Curse

bungusmaximus · May 01, 2007, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

*Dunkoro/Tahlkora - LoD and ZB Prot, working on the builds for the moment though. Tahlkora has done me very well as the lone monk in 4 man teams, even as prot, but suffers heavily against degen, even with Alesia.

Try aegis on them (if u dont have already), it works wonders.
My tahlkora seems to like cheap prot, stuff like RC works very well when fighting afflicted. Guardian and shielding hands are also pretty good. On almost all expensive prot she will just completely blow her energy, so stuff like divert is right out imo.

I don't suffer too much problems in HM btw. with heroes. That is, if theres at the least 2 people on the team. I always do HM with my guildie and we try to make some sort of separate teams. I usually take backline with casters (SS, ele, monks) and he takes the assault team with a mm and ranger and/or other melee.

I found out that if you have a warrior on your team, he shouldnt take monks. They will follow him too far into the frey and get exposed. Same with other squishie casters.

Micromanaging 8 heroes is indeed a drag, also for me, but with 2 people things become way more workable.

michelle mal · May 02, 2007, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Ditto and double ditto----at least for monks and ele----useless in HD. At first, I thought it would be interesting to go back to easy areas and have something of a challenge, but watching heroes just stand still and let foes slaughter them is no fun.

michelle mal · May 02, 2007, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Update on hard mode: enemy AI seems to favor attacks on casters. I tried using my mesmer with Illusionary Weaponry (Dark Escape and Feigned Nuetrality for damage reduction). Enemy swarms mesmer. My ele and monk are flagged back, and don't get attacked. Warrior hero stays close to mesmer and helps tank. Much more effective than playing as warrior, and having enemies run right past me to get to monk and ele. Might work as a tanking Earth ele also..... (Obviously, this is in party of 4 areas.)

Bryant Again · May 02, 2007, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by michelle mal

Update on hard mode: enemy AI seems to favor attacks on casters. I tried using my mesmer with Illusionary Weaponry (Dark Escape and Feigned Nuetrality for damage reduction). Enemy swarms mesmer. My ele and monk are flagged back, and don't get attacked. Warrior hero stays close to mesmer and helps tank. Much more effective than playing as warrior, and having enemies run right past me to get to monk and ele. Might work as a tanking Earth ele also..... (Obviously, this is in party of 4 areas.)

Ungh...If that's true, than 1. That'll be lame because that is easily exploitable, and 2. Heh, warrior "tanks" are gonna be ticked.

AlienFromBeyond · May 02, 2007, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Warriors are far better at dealing damage anyways.

Evilsod · May 02, 2007, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

Try aegis on them (if u dont have already), it works wonders.
My tahlkora seems to like cheap prot, stuff like RC works very well when fighting afflicted. Guardian and shielding hands are also pretty good. On almost all expensive prot she will just completely blow her energy, so stuff like divert is right out imo.

I don't suffer too much problems in HM btw. with heroes. That is, if theres at the least 2 people on the team. I always do HM with my guildie and we try to make some sort of separate teams. I usually take backline with casters (SS, ele, monks) and he takes the assault team with a mm and ranger and/or other melee.

I found out that if you have a warrior on your team, he shouldnt take monks. They will follow him too far into the frey and get exposed. Same with other squishie casters.

Micromanaging 8 heroes is indeed a drag, also for me, but with 2 people things become way more workable.

I have... at times its a complete waste of energy and a skill slot. Others its very useful.

Guardian is useless. Its a very short lasting 50% miss chance for 5e, chances are the monk will cast it on someone who doesn't need it. Its a wasted slot. SoA is and always will be better than Shielding Hands.

I've been trying to figure out what the best E-management is to give these monks. I always run them with Ether Signet lvl9 Inspiration. They do occasioanlly miss Ether Signet of course, but thats usually Olias' fault for giving them BR. Last few areas i've been trying out Channeling... i don't know why. Whenever they're close enough to make it useful, they end up dieing from massive melee spikes. Energy Tap is just too slow. Auspicious, imo is completely useless. Power Drain/Leech Signet, i find they tend to use these 2 skills at the first possibly opportunity, they don't actually gain anything from using them. I tried out Inspired/Revealed Hex for hex heavy areas... sadly they use the skills gained which puts their energy supply in an even worse state...

VitisVinifera · May 02, 2007, 05:14 AM // 05:14

loved reading this thread, and I don't have anything else I can contribute, because everyone else has stated it so well.

1. HM is a slagging cheesefest, a true tribute to the unimaginitivity (is that a word?) of the same programmers who brought us DoA: equating challenge (which should be fun) with overpowered, uberomgwtfhax buffed enemies (nearby children, pets, and keyboards beware).

2. Heroes in HM got a serious AI nerf, and as others have suspected, I wonder if this is actually intended, to merit a hypothetical response by Gaile that 'the community asked for greater challenges, now here they are'

3. Gaile and Anet seem to really be missing the mark more and more, from soul reaping, to invasive bugs, the pve/pvp imbalance and all-encompassing nerfs. Gaile's predictable smarmy responses (calling us whiners about the solo farming nerf, followed by the solo farming un-nerf and some bewildering meandering posts stacked with contradictions).

4. Wait, pets, cupcakes? Are we all ingrates?

edit: while I'm ranting, here comes major beef #5: the botting problem being dealt with by half-baked coding decisions that backfire and wind up only hurting the casual gamer, who is the farthest thing from a botter

Kashrlyyk · May 02, 2007, 06:36 AM // 06:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kas

I normally don't bash hero AI but after seeing how well they perform when they face traps really helped to chose my side on this matter.
"lol found a Trap! Let's go find all of them"
And then running around like a headless chicken, triggering every damn last one of those traps on the way. I sat in awe as their lifebars jumped from 100 to 0 in a matter of seconds. Simultanously. While they continued their run through more and more traps :X

They do that when they are blinded or burning. Instead of staying where they are and blocking enemies form coming after the casters or doing some damage, they run around.

I had that experience when I tried to capture Searing Flames. Koss started burning, ran 3 feet to the left, turned over and attacked the boss again. And this happened over and over again in the end I killed the boss with merely 30 hp. This behaviour reduces the damage heroes do and can get the whole group killed. Worst KI I have ever seen.

kumarshah · May 02, 2007, 07:41 AM // 07:41

Still nothing?

Theus · May 02, 2007, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Jumping Jesus Christ.

Are we ever going to get any word on this?

NeHoMaR · May 02, 2007, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Maybe is the way I play, but I don't really see any difference in heroes AI, it's just harder and I assume heroes die more now, for that reason, it's harder.

bungusmaximus · May 02, 2007, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeHoMaR

Maybe is the way I play, but I don't really see any difference in heroes AI, it's just harder and I assume heroes die more now, for that reason, it's harder.

Heh, my idea exactly, in Normal Mode Dunkoro never had to kite, so it didnt show he sucks at kiting so much. The enemy is just smarter, but my heroes seem to perform the same.

Draikin · May 02, 2007, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

Heh, my idea exactly, in Normal Mode Dunkoro never had to kite, so it didnt show he sucks at kiting so much. The enemy is just smarter, but my heroes seem to perform the same.

Hard Mode

As you can see they aren't moving an inch from their flag. Activating a speedboost will make them kite again.

Normal Mode

Look at how they're kiting from the minotaurs now.

bungusmaximus · May 02, 2007, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Cool screens, I like it when people don't just talk out of their rear. But, did you try to equip Dunkoro with something like dash? I have an idea that heroes won't kite when it's pointless (When enemies move faster anyway). I would like to try out myself but I'm at work kiting from demanding customers and casting healing hands on broken websites :P. If they do kite with speed buffs on maybe were on to something good and AI is acyually a lot smarter then we believe.

Evilsod · May 02, 2007, 12:43 PM // 12:43

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Gaile?

baz777 · May 02, 2007, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

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Gaile?

Indeed, ban all from the game, NOW!

(she here yet?)

Draikin · May 02, 2007, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

Cool screens, I like it when people don't just talk out of their rear. But, did you try to equip Dunkoro with something like dash? I have an idea that heroes won't kite when it's pointless (When enemies move faster anyway).

Yes, they do kite with speed buffs and stop moving the moment it ends, I tested this using storm chaser on a monk. While it's possible that this was done on purpose, even if the enemies run faster they'll still get hit less if they run away. True, the attacks will all be critical hits if they run but even that is no excuse. I don't see monks in PvP standing still because the warriors use sprint.

bungusmaximus · May 02, 2007, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draikin

Yes, they do kite with speed buffs and stop moving the moment it ends, I tested this using storm chaser on a monk. While it's possible that this was done on purpose, even if the enemies run faster they'll still get hit less if they run away. True, the attacks will all be critical hits if they run but even that is no excuse. I don't see monks in PvP standing still because the warriors use sprint.

In my case, they do, because they know I will use almighty bulls strike on stupid monk stompers, but that's off topic. Thanx for testing though, I might be able to improve my caster's build a bit instead of grinding my teeth over their stupidity. With the number of people playing HM I will still partially be condemned to using heroes so this sort of info is very useful

.

IlikeGW · May 02, 2007, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Weekes:
So, the issues with Hero AI in Hard Mode are known (especially with Monks set to passive not even trying to kite). I believe the issues are being looked into, and the devs know the reasons why Hero AI is behaving differently in HM.

Devs are looking at it according to Alex Weekes:

http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forum...=450853&page=3

LoKi Foxfire · May 02, 2007, 08:34 PM // 20:34

One of the problems with getting any response or fixes in a reasonable time is because of their whole business model. They've already taken our money for the game so it doesn't really matter if they fix issues hardcore players have with the game. Newbies won't have HM for example so it won't affect them as much as it does people who enjoy it.

This is just a stupid theory I know, but sometimes I really wish we could know what goes behind the scenes. Gaile just gives us vague or false answers to try to spin it in favorable light. It's her job. I don't know. I really hope GW2 doesn't have all the same issues; i.e., things taking months or years to fix or implement.